poetry texts, poem archive at plagiarist.com

It is interesting how people apply interpretations to this poem. It was originally written to amuse children, a nonsense verse from Victorian times (when most children's stories were rather dull and moralising). This does not mean it can not be interpreted in different ways, although my personal opinion is that applying reason to nonsense is something of a contradiction. I love this poem, Madhu summarises it neatly by referring to its rhythm, sense of movement and mock-seriousness: I think it is great fun.

Ulterior motives - the way one seems 'all-pleasant' and altruistic; though wait around for a while and they'll show their true colours.
How many times have i seen that!

Now, I'm not sure that this poem has anything to do with religion. Yea, sure, the symbolism can be found, and I myself find it really interesting, but that doesn't mean that it is Carroll's intention. On the other hand, honestly, what is it with saying that symbolizing a poem to say one thing is an attack on your religion? Even if this poem is about the Carpenter being Jesus and the Walrus being Buddha, who cares? All it's saying is that organized religion and following what other believe isn't always right for everyone, and eventually, when let get out of control, organized religion can cause devestation. Ex. Puritans and the Salem Witch Trials or Christianity and the Crusades or the whole Al Queda terrorist thing. It's not that religion is bad, or that morals are bad, it's just that organized religion and letting people tell you what to do for everything can be horrible. And, I am pretty sure that organized religion has no take on morality. I am religious, but I never go to church, and decide to learn the religion with my own two eyes and ears than having to be told what the Bible means. I can read. I know what it means. I dont need some religious faction to tell me how to worship my Lord. If I'm doing it wrong, then hell, I'll figure it out, now won't I? But in comparison to some of the little pastors' and priests' children I know... I am probably much more moral. I use the term pastors' and priests' children loosely, since I'm just talking about those guys and chicks at my school that try to force their beliefs on everyone even though they are the biggest hypocrites. And... I'm spent. Have a nice day!

"2003-03-19Added by: Liam HigginsThe comment that religion corrupts inner man is absurd. For thousands of years religion has been the driving force behind education and learning. We are just now seeing what the ridding of the morals of religion from oursleves has done to society. The out of wedlock birth rate, drugs etc. All of these things cost society. The only thing i see is the incredible ways religion had driven society as a whole. Without it the world would not be a very pleasant place."

Practically since its conception, religion has time and again stood in the way of education and knowledge. For example, religious authorities opposed/oppose knowledge and research concerning: the world being round, the Earth revolving around the sun, evolution taking place, human cloning, stem cell research, birth control, sexuality, psychology, etc. Also, the idea that drug usage has increased due to the "ridding of the morals of religion" is ridiculous. First of all, where is your evidence that drug usage has increased? Drugs have ALWAYS been a problem, especially in eras where religious conservatives had a much greater presence ('60s, '70s). In addition, you imply in your comment that "out of wedlock" births cost society. How so? Just because out of wedlock births are against out-dated religious practices and beliefs does not mean that they are empirically "bad," unless of course you have the mindset that religion is empirically right, in which case you are basically saying "religion is right because religion is right." This is not a valid argument. In Lewis Carroll's poem, the Carpenter represents Christianity-based religions. You, and people like you who fervently follow the Carpenter based on the promise of salvation, are the oysters.

oh, cabbages and kings can come to mean many of things depending on the individual i suppose but veer so long through the hearing of turmoil residing in our souls we begin to long for something external that will place us back into the dream of our own reality and be accepted or perhpas affirmed by the only thing that is forever languaged through social constructionism and to this we call faith amen.

...or you could just read the poem, and enjoy it. I'm sure this was the whole point of it being written!

Oh, please. You must be kidding. The poem has absolutely NOTHING to do with religion. Tell me that was a joke.

I rather like it. Lewis Carroll is a wonderful poet/author.

Ellen.

In order to draw religious overtones from this poem you have to seriously be looking for a fight with the silent majority...
It is a desperate stretch to relate the passage to any religion, and a larger mistake to condemn organized religion for encouraging people to treat each other better.
The mistake made by those who say that organized religion is inherently bad, is that they equate the man (the instrument) with God. Man isn't perfect, and was never meant to be God. But the liberal minority screams crucify every time a religious leader makes a mistake. Your complaint about how the conservatives blindly obey a man is shallow and ignorant... if they understand their faith... They follow God, and man shares his experience and insight.
As for the poem... Politics and the workforce... I can see how it might mean not to follow Man on a long hot jog down the beach.. only to get devoured.. because the Walrus talked of a pleasant time on the beach, then ran them, and then spun them with his words, until he consumed all they had to offer.
Now that sounds like man to me, giving these characteristics to God only proves that you don't know who you are talking about. Read up on Him, sit down and talk to Him, then come back with something that lines up a little better with who He is and His motives...

Get off your soap box....
And enjoy a children's story...

I've read about Lewis Carroll's strange obsession with children- the way he loved to draw preadolescent girls in his spare time. Many literary cirtiques believe that this poem may be a narration of how he deceived children into becoming his companions. I love his work, but looking at it that way makes it a little disturbing, dont you think?

But surely the fact that a carpenter was used and not just an ordinary person bears some link to Christ.